Thieves Guild Discussion

I'm opening this topic to solicit feedback from the player base regarding the Thieve's Guild.

Please give us feedback on your view on the Thieves.

-- DemosThenes - 2010/06/24

The thieves guild makes for a unique challenge to its members. The idea of stealing rather than killing somewhat appeals to me. It's definitely not for a newbie as the quests have very few clues if any. The prospect of getting chased by guards and being wanted for your crime is somewhat thrilling. I can see now what draws people to Grand Theft Auto. As for the anti-thief code that allows players to still reap their rewards from a mob that's been mugged, that's a new one on me. As a non-thief, I didn't really mind competing with a thief to get the loot first. Finding a monster without loot isn't really much different than finding the room vacant, but some monsters you still kill anyway for training or whatever's left after the thief is done.

-- ManaLishi - 2010/07/10

Mana, the bulk of the complaints I've been receiving is that while only having two active thieves whole sections of the MUD were "vacuumed", leaving no items on mobs.

The real problem here is that items don't respawn until the monster is killed, which the recent patch tries to address. Normally if a mob has been killed, you know it'll respawn, but equipment doesn't work that way.

I think the Thieves is a neat idea, but I don't favor anything in the game where players adversely affect other players. Mutter has been vigilant in addressing issues, and his latest patch may have struck the right balance between thieves and other players.

-- DemosThenes - 2010/07/10

Thieves guild gets points for originality, but really doesn't seem to have a place or fit for any of the directions Igor wants to go. Interesting concepts do not always equal good practice.

-- PhoenixFire - 2010/07/18

I didn't know Igor wanted to go in a particular direction? And if so, Then pray tell, how does Blue Order, Bath, Vampires, FFF, Mauve, GuildLoreMasters, Rangers, Equality, and whatever other guild/club I have left out of this list differ? Thiefs offers a very unique playing experience, and to be honest, I agree with manalishi. Way back when I was a mortal, any time soembody complained about a particular mob not being there, when we wanted the equip, or just the xp, we were told by the arch team to basicily shut up, stop our bitching, and if it meant that much to us, to stay put in the mobs room untill it respawned. Many of the players, to include The higher level players, actually have found uses for thieves, and have not complained about a 'lack' of equipment, etc, because like me, they remember the days when there were 15 Avatars and a dozen or so mortals online avtively going around and killing anything that moved. We ALL fought each other over kills then. So simply put, why ARE thieves such a problem. In the history of Igor, the problem of mobs needing to reset, etc, has always existed, no matter what guilds were active. And since Igor has NO known theme, I do not see how thieves guild does not fit in to the chaotic mish mash of the Igorian world. Yes, some things needs to be corrected, adjusted, etc.. But that is ALWAYS the case when a new guild comes in to the game. Always has been that way. Thats my two cents worth for now atleast.

-- NarkAulov - 2010/07/19

direction of having more players. is all i meant. as every guild but thieves is based on combat... I'm a combat player, giving it my all to a certain power level because now I can finally fight for EQ that.. crap... never there... monster never resets for it to be there.

Thieves don't do combat and don't have to, it kinda goes against the flow of muds in general. as they are dungeons for hack n slash (base concept ok? not speaking out against igorian thieves)

Perhaps once the eq is successfully pilfered the mobs goes "oh no point hanging around then" and walks off allowing a full room reset?

I can see us getting people trying to play then hit this wall of frustration as an army of thieves steals... everything... that isn't nailed down. Wave of new people that came for combat? bye bye. And then we're stuck talking about it on wiki again.

-- PhoenixFire - 2010/07/21

p.s. i'm catching up on lots of old stuff and looking and commenting mostly at a glance without much history. i should have not made my original comment quite so short.

-- PhoenixFire - 2010/07/21

Well, at the moment, most equipment spawns into the room, or the corpse, of the mob after it dies, when a mob has been robbed, So the equipment might not show up when examining the mob, but atleast 70-80 % of the time, if not more, you will still ge the equipment from the kill. In a nutshell without getting into the mechanincs of why it doesn not work on all mobs, etc, but that particular issue is something that has been addressed. And to my knowledge, work is being done on figuring out a way to get it to work on the remaining percent of the mobs. Thus, the impact thieves guild is having on the other Hack and slash guilds has been reduced, but then, what if we were to flip the coin? Were are all the mobs that have been killed when a thief shows up wanting to steal something? Just a question. And yes, thieves guild is just one guild, but if we are to try to improve things for EVERYONE, then the same can be said about improving things for thieves, thus I think some sort of balance is needed. If a thief cannot steal something from a mob because the mob is not there after death, then perhaps not all mobs should have their equipment respawn after a theft? As far as direction for more players, I think thieves guild actually helps in that aspect, as it gives another dimension to the mud, and a tottally different playing aspect for thoseplayers that maybe are a little tired of the hack n' slash. My understanding of muds has always been more of a Role playing interface with Multiple users. And that is how I try to play it. I can say that Mask has found ways that makes thieves usefull to the rest of the player base, and continues searching for more ways to interact with the rest of the mud. He offers various services, someitmes probono to players that non-thieves can not always provide. Lost your corpse or gear to kraken... Well, he doesn't let one pick the stuff up from the room, same with many other mobs, but a thief CAN recover your corpse. I have even been able to do corpse recover on dracolich on rare occasions when I am faster then him. That is just one way, of a growing list, that thieves can be useful to the rest of the players base. Perhaps it is because I have a strong background of D&D, were any party would be stupid and hindered buy not having a thief in their ranks, that makes me feel so strongly for this, but the uses are their. They just need to be found, perhaps advertised slightly, and used. But I truly feel there is a place for the Theives Guild, and that they can be a valued guild and addition to this alreadycomplex mud.

-- NarkAulov - 2010/07/22

Narkaulov, thanks for your support! Your view of Thieves is exactly what the other creators and I are hoping players will find, a way where being a thief means being a productive and interactive part of the game and working well with players from other guilds. I can assure everyone that the archteam and Thieves' coders are discussing daily how to improve the guild and make it a better fit with everything Igor already has. If anyone who plays has suggestions in this regard, please don't hesitate to post them here or send one of us a mail.

Thanks for playing!

-- MutTer - 2010/07/24

I truly think that both thieves and non-thiefs can benefit from more frequent room resets to keep them busy. Demo had expressed concern when I mentioned going further out to find stuff to steal or kill. That's a non-issue for veteran and hardcore players but I'm sure casual players find it annoying to not find stuff to do within 30 steps. I love the non-killing aspects of the game myself, such as questing and exploring, but I also like the hack and slash at other times, like getting a couple quick kills in before work.

-- ManaLishi - 2010/07/24

I had an idea about a bounty hunter guild who could gxp off the thieves guild, collect bounties... get %'s of loot if thief is caught red handed. some stuff not unlike stakers and vamps. yeah?

-- PhoenixFire - 2010/08/07

Well, to be honest I am not sure a whole guild based on bounty hunting thieves is going to work very well. Perhaps some sort of bounty hunting system were any player can obtain a bounty for a specific thief could be feasible though. But thats just my two cents.

-- NarkAulov - 2010/08/09

I believe that a system would be quite interesting; not only would you be running from the guards but also other players. However, some thieves might not like that PK aspect, but I think it would add a very interesting twist to the thieves guild (And then after a certain time the bounty goes down/off?) Not a guild for it, but the way that stakers is to vamps.

-- TuFf - 2010/11/08

Igor has always been a no-PK mud I don't think the majority of players would like that. I don't think I would.

-- BoroMir - 2010/11/09

How can you say it's always been a no-PK mud when vampires have been around forever and I was suggesting a similar system? I think it'd be pretty sweet; hell I might even consider thieves if that's the case, I've always though that was a pretty awesome aspect of vampires, never knowing who was one and the change of getting staked at any moment. Atleast, that was the appeal of the RLRPG that was played at the euromeet back in Borås(among other places I'm sure) oh so many years ago...

-- TuFf - 2010/11/10

*'chance of getting staked' even, sorry

-- TuFf - 2010/11/10